The Great Mexican Food Debate
Let the Games Begin!
Let's face it. Great Mexican food is hard to come by in this city. While Shanghai likes to bill itself as international, and while the dining scene does boast a plethora of cuisines from various nations and ethnicities ... it's still difficult to get a taco just right. Ironically, it's something I've discussed with many people--my columnist, Crystyl Mo, my friend and experienced chef / restaurateur Steven Smith and a few other foodies most recently as well as a good Mexican friend of mine. She made some homemade Mexican food once--delicious, and unlike anything I ever saw on the menu at the ill-fated (perhaps we should say, euthanised?) Taco Bell Grande--may it rest in bad Mexican food peace. So why is it that a type of cuisine so popular could have such poor representation in Shanghai?
There have been a few venues that have made a go at it, many of them Tex-Mex. We've heard rave reviews about Peter's Tex-Mex Grill and a new burrito stand called Togo. Mexican-style venues in Shanghai boast everything from a fast-food approach--think Cal Kitchen and Taco Popo--to a large Mexican hombre's mustached face on the side of Hengshan Lu (that's Zapata's, legendary for Ladies Nights more than its burritos, in case you're unaware). Interestingly, the lack of, or defense of, the city's Mexican establishments seems to strike a chord in the hearts of those who truly embrace, love, and likely miss, the zesty flavors from the southern tip of North America.
Recently, this comment from zimbu on the Mexico Lindo listing site sparked quite a debate between critic and fan:
I used to eat at Mexico Lindo 2-3 times per month. The decor was ok and they had some filipino girls in the beginning doing the service, so it was acceptable. The food was never good, but just ok. Lots of stuff was totally wrong and bore very little resemblance to real Mexican food. The chips were seriously off and the salsa was a joke. Sometimes I wonder if the owner and chef ever really had eaten Mexican food in their entire lives?! But I could bear the chicken burrito, and so I went back... Their brunch menu was always strange. Sorta like they really did not want to be open for business, but they did it anyways. The selections were few and lots of "sorry, we do not have that item today" issues. Then I had a series of visits where the food was really slow, like more than 30-40 minutes to reach my table, and the service staff (locals) was frustratingly bad, and, and, and...Finally I just said "never again" and stopped going.
The debate has thus ensued. If Mexico Lindo is not the epitome of Mexican eats in Shanghai, what is? Who's close? Is anyone? Is this a battle between those who prefer the Cali-style taste of Tex-Mex and the real deal? Tell me what you think about the state of Mexican and Tex-Mex in Shanghai.
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Don't live in Gubei. Sorry.
Grew up in Los Angeles, so that makes me an expert on Mexican food.
I heard they have improved their chips recently, but...
Mexico Lindo still sucks.
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You ate there 2-3 times a week, appear grumpy and don't live in Gubei? I bet you live close.
L.A. makes you an expert on faking things, not food. Baja Fresh does not constitute as 'education'.
Go set someplace else on fire, but don't attack a really good place on account of them taking away the cute Philippino gals who you could talk to.
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You folks need a referee? Different tastes I suppose. zimbu, if you think this place is truly the Tex-Mex hell that you say it is, where do you think you can find good Tex-Mex in the city? Can you?
I have to throw in a few cents here on the "Filipino" issue though. I've chanced across the Filipino service industry stereotype a few times in the last week and I have to say that the fact that there are Filipinos working in a restaurant does not unequivocally result in good service and I don't know why Filipino servers are acceptable and Chinese aren't.
Let's be honest, we're in China, not the U.S. You can't expect the same service culture you're used to in a completely different country. It's something to consider, yes, but for me, I figure why waste time complaining about it? And while we may lament Chinese takes on Western food ... consider this. What do you think Chinese people say about bastardized Western interpretations of Chinese food when they visit North America?
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First of all, I don't think even Mexico Lindo claims to be "Tex Mex". I believe they are targeting Mexican food...badly.
Are there any real winners in this category in Shanghai? Well, I reviewed a few others on this site, but to summarize:
Bubba's is pretty good for bbq if you like their "smoked" style of cooking. I have not had their Mexican items yet though.
Cal Kitchen makes a pretty decent fast-food type burrito.
Blue Frog serves a breakfast burrito, but you can ask them to swap rice for the scrambled eggs and get yourself an "ok" chili burrito that way.
Malone's makes an ok chicken burrito. Not great, but "ok" and also reliable.
I have tried all the others, except for the new kids on the block, Togos and Peter's (will get to them eventually), and none are any good in my view.
aricsaqueen: Chill out. Just because you're friends with the staff there, doesn't mean they serve good or authentic food. And, by the way, I previously lived near Hong Qiao airport, but I recently sold my apartment there and now live in the center of Puxi closer to my office.
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One more thing for tristamarie: While I appreciate your more balanced response, the whole "this is China and we can not expect them to follow our culture" is just a massively overused excuse for bad service. There are in fact some restaurants in Shanghai with very good and reliable service. Which makes it even more clear that there are serious problems of mismanagement at the others that do not come close to this standard.
Your other point about "What do you think Chinese people say about bastardized Western interpretations of Chinese food when they visit North America?“ is also a too common response to a fair criticism of any western restaurant in China. The simple answer is "who cares what they think about Chinese food when they visit North America?!" Whether they like it or don't like it, it has nothing to do with the quality of western restaurants in Shanghai. They have the right to criticize and to hope for better Chinese food in North American, and vice versa. That's fair.
By the way, I should mention that mainland Chinese complain endlessly when they are given Chinese food in the US. The best method to solve this is to take them to eat western food non-stop for 3 days. After that, when you take them to another "bastardized Western interpretation of Chinese food“ restaurant, they like it considerably more. (evil grin)
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Well, sticking with a balanced opinion, haha, I'm not saying we shouldn't critique at all. But on the whole I find westerners, and probably myself included, talk a lot and give little. How many of us actually tip in restaurants here? Good service also comes with good incentives--customers who respect their servers, treat them with a positive attitude, and maybe say thanks at the end with a few extra kuai. I worked as a waitress for a while back home and I know how tough it is, and I have to say, if I was a server here in China, I'd probably be as uninspired to put in a lot of effort as they are. Like any industry there's supply and demand, servers and diners and the entire scene improves as both sides' behavior develops in line with what the expectations are. Service culture is growing here, but it's relatively new compared to in the West. All I'm saying is, patience.
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I became friends with the staff there after looking for, and finding, a good place to eat.
You 'sold' your apartment? In Hongqiao. Hmmmm.
They do mexican food 'badly', yet you used to go '2-3 times a week'? How is this possible. You complained about the service change, but not the change in menu. So why, in the world, would you eat there so much if you didn't like the food? Simply so you could 'bear the chicken burrito'?
How about this - write about the food.
Burrito - you like Chips (free) - 'stale' Salsa (free) - 'a joke'
How about a more in-depth review of what they have to offer?
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Are you retarded?! Read my original post...it is on the same page as this one. I did NOT eat there 2-3 times per week!
And what is your point about Gubei and now Hongqiao?? For the life of me, I have no clue what you are trying to hint. If someone lives in Gubei or Hongqiao, are they not qualified to give a bad rating to Mexico Lindo?
Here is my summary comment again on Mexico Lindo's food: It is crap. It tastes nothing like the authentic Mexican food that I have eaten for many years in southern California. The tortillas are off, the chips are bad, the salsa is like blender-made baby food with no spice at all, the burritos are a joke, and all of the Euro-crap on the menu that purports to be Mexican food is simply...Euro-crap.
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You're right, I'm wrong - it was 2-3 times per month.
(Everything below is being posted by an individual. Opinions expressed are not that of City Weekend, Ringier Int'l)
Gubei & Hongqiao are the center of all those on ex-pat packages. This is a demographic renowned for their ability to live in China without actually living in China. A large majority of opinions are insufferable within said genre.
Now - back to your post:
'It tastes nothing like authentic Mexican food' - Again, this is China.
You don't like the tortillas, chips or salsa - so would you base a review of Holiday Inn on the freshness of the nice little chocolates they leave on your pillow? You claim the burritos to be a 'joke', yet this is the one thing in your original post you said you could eat.
Why would you go back almost weekly if it was that bad? How about a review of the rest of the menu? Mole? Ceviche?
Surely you're not basing this entire review (which looks to be a 'bad day in China' for ya, what with all the other reviews) on one main course (which again, you state you could eat) and free appetizers.
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So they moved us into our own little corner.
Let's take a look at some of the things you said about other Mexican joints:
Taco Popo: "classic example of some local Chinese hacking their way through western food which they personally find disgusting. They have no clue what it should taste like, so when it comes out tasting like crap, they assume "that's what those idiot western people like to eat."
Zapatas: "I have been there about 5 times total. Each time, there was a gap of 6 months or more in between visits during which time I convinced myself it could not possibly have been as bad as I remembered. Then I went back and realized it was as bad as I remembered. Repeat."
Cal Kitchen: (while you gave it a decent review, you referred to yourself in the 3rd person which is immediate grounds for disqualification)
Why not just call it a bad China day, hmmm?
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Hola! Ok, saw the comments and couldn't resist. and "si", I am Mexican. If Aric says Mexico Lindo is good, then it's good. He's practically Mexican as far as I am concerned! While I agree there is a shortage of real, authentic, down home cooking (Pozole, Tamales, Enchiladas Rancheras, Chilaquiles, Huevos con Chorizo), I think Togo is pretty damn good. Aric introduced me to Steve's little joint and he's done a fantastic job. Give him some credit--he deserves it! I admit I haven't been to Mexico Lindo or Zapatas, but another place that I think has potential is Element Fresh. They just added a chicken quesadilla to their menu and it's very good. Unfortunately, their salsa sucks!!! (stewed tomatoes).. but I am hopeful and when you're desperate, it will do nicely. Aric, I think we should open our own place! :) Oh yeah, I would kill for a Taco Bell at this point! and finally, SERVICE overall is a nightmare here in China!!! even the so-called 5-star restaurants could use improvement.
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OK, I get it now. You are just going to repeat yourself over and over again. This is not what we would call "good debate technique" in the grown-up world.
Re Gubei/Hongqiao: "This is a demographic renowned for their ability to live in China without actually living in China"...Well, well, aren't you the seasoned expert on China! Been here a couple of years, been to a bunch of clubs and a few grungy local eateries? That makes you an expert I guess...oops, aren't we talking about Mexican food and the quality/taste of said food? I don't understand why your living in a grungy hovel with some other struggling English teachers makes you an expert in Mexican food?
Bad Day? Those were all posts I made in a single day...that does not mean I visited all the restaurants in a single day. Where is your common sense?
Cal Kitchen Review: 3rd person??? From which esteemed university did you receive your English degree...? Did they ever explain the difference between 1st and 3rd person? Here's the original Cal Kitchen review reprinted below for the benefit of the judges:
Cal Kitchen: Visited this place for the first time today on Da Gu Road (near Shi Men Yi Road). I tried to go when they first opened a couple of months back, but each time there was a sign posted claiming some problem with "the equipment". My guess is that their business licenses were not in order and they got caught up in the ridiculous/typical sweep of restaurants by the inspectors at that time.Basically it is a build-your-own burrito place similar to Freebirds (located in college towns in several cities in the USA) or Chipotle (fast food chain...for some strange reason, it is disturbing to know that Chipotle is owned by McDonalds!).
I had stayed away from this place for a while since I had read some very so so reviews in the expat mags. They all seemed to hint that this place was bad or completely unauthentic or whatever. Maybe the reviewers were Europeans looking for goose liver paste finger sandwiches or maybe they did not receive the proper "grease" (ad placements) from the restaurant owner?
Score: If this place was located in California, I would give it a 7 (so so). But since it is located in Shanghai, I give it an extra 1.5 points for good effort against all odds, for a total score of 8.5 out of 10! That is surprisingly good in my book.
Get out your calculator and follow along with me as I reveal the complex Zimbu Scoring Matrix that was used (Copyright 2008, Zimbu Ltd. Co., please do not use without permission and royalty payment agreements in advance):
1 point for nice sign outside -1 point for too many flies flying around 1 point for nice brochure/menu 1 point for nice lean beef choice -1 for using chicken leg meat instead of chicken breast -1 point for not offering "beef chili" as a burrito filling option even though it is sitting right there in the same warming table 1 point for authentic tortillas 1 point for two sizes, 10 inch and 12 inch 1 point for authentic corn tortilla chips -0.5 points for so so salsa. It needs some chilli peppers to give it at least a tiny bit of zing -2 points for green mystery mayo sauce being called "guacamole" 1 point for nice red rice 1 point for nice yellow rice 1 point for nice black beans, red beans, and refried beans -1 point for no lettuce inside burritos -1 point for all of the meat choices being too dried out. A little broth left in the warming pans would be a big improvement 1 point for offering Diet Coke 1 point for awesome clean bathrooms and hand-wash sink 1 point for professionally equipped and clean kitchen 0.5 points for ok decoration (not great, but ok) 1 point for nice jallepeno peppers -1 point for only one salsa choice 1 point for friendly staff -0.5 points for slow speed of preparation
OK, now take the sum of the above points, divide by 4, then again divide by 3, then multiply by 2 and again multiply by 6.
Now throw out that number and then starting at zero, add 8.5 points because Zimbu said this is the score for this place.
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Sorry for the weird formatting above.
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While nobody in their right mind would call it real Tex-Mex, I'd settle for a Taco Bell.
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Yeah, a nice (real, not Grande) Taco Bell would be great. That was what I was expecting a few years ago when they announced they were opening in Shanghai...then they opened that Pizza Huttish bastardized version called Taco Bell Grande!
Try Cal Kitchen. their burritos are pretty good.
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aricsqueen:
I'm from L.A. too, and although there are those there who don't know a thing about Mexican food, anybody who has spent enough time eating at the taco trucks, the illegal taco grilling stands, the Mexican holes in the wall that are all over the place, do know. Baja Fresh is not representative of Angeleno Mexican food. That said the quality of Mexican food in Los Angeles is far behind that in Mexico.
Shanghai: Mexico Lindo is terrible. There is no good Mexican food in Shanghai. Not even passable. Frankly Baja Fresh is better.
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Yay!
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zimbu.
answer the question:
mole? ceviche?
why are your posts half a page long, yet don't answer the question.
again, for clarity:
you don't like the chips (free), salsa (free) say the burritos are a joke but ate there almost weekly.
please explain.
while you're at it, please explain 'writing in 3rd person'...again, I might be wrong here, but Zimbu wrote '...because Zimbu said...'.
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I never order mole anywhere, so no point to compare it. As for ceviche, I am not a big lover of raw fish, and even more so would not recommend eating raw fish in China.
As for the rest of your comments, you've just bored me to death...
Now go ask for your free drink from your friends at Mexico Lindo...And give them a Mexican food cookbook while your there.
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Can you explain 'talking in third person' please?
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And while we're waiting on that, let's go through the ever growing list of someone who I'm willing to bet pokes a lot of people on Facebook:
chips: (free) stale salsa: (free) a joke burrito: you said you could eat on one minute, but then said was bad the next mole: you never order ceviche: you don't like raw fish
Zimbu - what else have you ordered there and not liked? And if it was all so bad, why did you go back almost weekly?
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So, I took a break from my ESL hovel hoping to hear from ya, No reply, Zimbu? Ohhhhh, that's right. Here's why.
You could only slag off the chips/salsa, which isn't a true review of any place. Which means you must be unhappy with:
Them taking the Filipino staff away and replacing them with (shock horror!) locals.
You ask me where I got my esteemed degree from, make fun of English teachers, yet you referred to yourself (twice, if we count your profile) as Zimbu. Now, I'm sure in university, between poking the eyes out of the pictures of the girls who wouldn't talk to you, you might have been taught something called 'Illeism'. See, it's 'the act of referring to oneself in the third person'. (As in, 'The Dude abides', Mailer in 'The Fight', etc.) Wikipedia is unblocked now to tear yourself away from '2 Girls 1 Cup' and find out for yourself.
So yes, despite your long posts and attacking my accreditation (I never went to college, btw, which makes this even worse, you're being taught this from someone who barely made it out of high school), you speak about Zimbu in the third person...two times.
So, all I have left to conclude is that you don't give good reviews, are slightly...shall I say, outspoken when it comes to Chinese preparing your Western food and make fun of ESL teachers when, in fact, you need one.
I can't wait to see your next review - how tall are you, btw?
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I'm only taking zimbu's side because you attacked z for being an Angeleno, and claimed that Angelenos don't know about Mexican food, even though you clearly haven't a clue about what Mexican food tastes like. And frankly, I think zimbu's assesment of Cal Kitchen is way off. But wow are you a bitter one. Must be tough teaching ESL without even a degree (what do they pay you in, food tickets?). I don't know you and I don't know zimbu, and that makes me happy, but if I were forced to have to spend a couple of hours with either one of you, Arics, I'd run screaming from you. And by the way zimbu, ceviche isn't actually raw. The acid from lime/lemon juice "cooks" the fish.
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I think the incessant mud-slinging is a little bit counterproductive here guys. Which area of town someone lives in or what their profession is does not make them more or less qualified to talk about whether or not they think a burrito at any given restaurant is tasty or not. I think people are getting defensive about their entrenched opinions.
Despite the often lackluster quality of Western restaurants in China, there is a large enough expat community that there are several outstanding restaurants of various categories. Some fantastic Spanish, Mediterranean and French restaurants. Some decent cafes, italian restaurants, fusion, etc. So why is it that certain types of food seem to have a dirth in quality supply?
Mexican is one food which we can all agree lacks a strong presence in Shanghai. Greek food is another. Are the expat communities not strong enough to support these cuisines? Are the chefs not here? No one is investing in them? Perhaps the appeal to the Chinese palate is not strong enough to warrant it (since you can't build a successful business based on the patronage of expats alone)?
Maybe we should petition the Mexican community in Shanghai to open a restaurant themselves!
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I don't know about "fantastic" Spanish, French, etc. If we were in Spain or France or etc. I don't think you'd use that adjective.
But yes, Mexican is a problem. I think that much of that comes from the fact that what so many people think of as Mexican is already pretty distant from what the food is like in Mexico, add to that the China/Shanghaification of that basically American-Mexican food and what do you get?
But the thing is, even if the place is opened by Mexicans, it won't be any different simply because they'll subscribe to your theory that you can't build a successful business based on the patronage of expats alone (and actually you can and there are many places in town that testify to that). Ever had the hot sauce at Tequilaz (which is a Mexican owned place, btw)? Kind of hoisin tasting, and the food itself is certainly far from what I'd expect. And in Beijing, El Fogoncito, a well known Mexican chain, recently opened a restaurant. Last time I was up there I made a point of going and trying it because I heard that they had al pastor tacos straight of the spit with a pineapple on top and everything. It was very disappointing.
I guess that in order to have anything approaching authentic foreign food a city needs to have a very large community from whatever country. For instance in Los Angeles you can go to the San Gabriel Valley and get Chinese food that pretty much tastes like good Chinese food in China or Taiwan. That's simply because they're making food for their own people and in order to compete it has to be up to their expectations. And in Paris you can get mighty fine Moroccan food all over the place. And... well you get the picture.
If there were a million Mexicans living here, you can be sure there would be hundreds of little taco stands and such serving delicious and authentic food. Since it doesn't seem like there will ever be a large Mexican presence here, I highly doubt that there will ever be decent Mexican food. Unless some enterprising spirit goes and gets a great cook from Mexico (or California or the Southwest) brings him/her over here, gives them all the proper ingredients, and lets them make their food the way the would at home. Sadly that business would probably fail.
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Hi mcmal: thanks for your comments. Re ceviche, I would still say it is not cooked in the true sense of the word since there is no heat applied (and I am assuming that is the definition of cooking, but have no bothered to check on wiki). Anyways, I think you agree since you put ""s around the word cook.
I still think it is strange that there is no good Mexican food in Shanghai. Agree, Cal Kitchen is not great. I gave it a 7 out of 10, which is not very good, but then raised the score 1.5 points for being in Shanghai...that's how desperate I am for decent Mexican food!
I recently gave iiiit! a very good review. The food there is really excellent. If that restaurant owner can do such a good job with that type of food (not Mexican), why can't anyone do similar with Mexican? The spices are not that hard to come by. And tortillas are also fairly easy to find now. Worst case, an enterprising restauranteur could bring in whatever he wanted via one of the food trading companies; it's not that difficult.
Also, I think you made a good point about there being restaurants in Shanghai that survive almost exclusively on expat customers.
Hmmm...so what's the problem? It's a mystery to me.
Has anyone tried Togos or Peter's Tex Mex yet? Comments?
Speaking of Beijing, a long long time ago, there was a total hole-in-the-wall called Mexican Wave. They were mainly a bar but they served "Mexican food" also. Terrible stuff, but in those days, it was like food from heaven!
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YAAAAAAAAAWN...
This debate is getting tedious!
I just want to say that anyone who says cal kitchen is good...is not someone I would agree with.
But just to throw something into this conversion amongst "Mexican food experts"...there's this place I saw on Shanxi Lu by Beijing Lu...an obscure Chinese eatery with the Mexican flag on one wall and on top like a sign. Apparently, it's a Chinese eatery by day and Mexican haunt by night. Does anyone know anything about this. It has intrigued me for several months now and this debate makes me want to try it out!
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Just ignore aricsaqueen. He is being a jerk. I can't believe he works for this website!
Re the mystery place: Can you describe the location a little better? That area is not far from my office, so I could check it out one day after work. Chinese by day, Mexican by night does not sound like a good combination, but I am intrigued also.
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I haven't eaten at Cal Kitchen myself, though I've heard two things. One, it's good if you're starving in the wee hours of the morning and looking for fast-food "in a Mexican style." Which pretty much sums that up, haha. And, two, that the guacamole is actually mayo with some green dye and seasonings (from a couple of my reviewers). The reason? "Avocados are too expensive." So yea, I think that one is all about managing expectations.
Anyway, the mystery place you guys are wondering about is the one that mcmal referred to. It's called Tequilaz. For a while they were also doing another style of food, I think it was some sort of Southeast Asian fare. A bit too eclectic if you ask me but perhaps they've decided to go with just the Mexican fare now. It is Mexican owned, and the tequila is really reasonably priced, haha. If you guys check it out, let us know what you think.
zimbu, the owner / creator of Iiit! is actually restaurateur Eduardo Vargas and his partner Kelley Lee. They've been involved in innumerable restaurants around town, including City Diner (over a year or so ago before the management changed hands), as well as Latina, Azul Viva, Casa 13 and his latest, Bam-Bou. Kelley also recently opened Boxing Cat Brewery. I don't think they've tried their hand at Mexican yet, though the next time I speak with him, I'll pass on the idea ;)
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Good point, Trista - we had a (real) Mexican dinner party on Saturday night and heard that avocado's are going for up to 30kuai a pop now...that makes it hard.
Any food being made here slightly left of the culinary center is hard, even if you can find the spices, ovens cook differently, blenders have settings we don't understand, etc - I applaud anyone who can even get close to authentic.
Zimbu - you gave a very very unfair review of a good place and until you can explain something other than the chips and salsa, I will consider you to be bitter towards them for their staff change...which is reason to moan but not give a low low score. If you want to attack people's education (or lack thereof, ha ha) you need to be prepared to admit when yours suffers (3rd person? You were so quick to post last week). You cant believe I write for this website, but you are the one abusing it by taking a bad mood out on a place that is at least trying.
So, I'll repeat myself for people who find this tedious:
Zimbu gave a horrible ranking to a local joint based entirely on chips, salsa & staff.
I'm going check back with you from time-to-time, big guy, to make sure if you leave something, it's un-biased and not based on your current mood.
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Read my original review. It is very clear.
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To be fair, Aric, zimbu ate there many times and it's doubtful he only tried the chips and salsa. Most reviews people post focus on the items they try that stand out as either good or bad. You're basing your strong critique of his position on as much an emotional basis as you accuse zimbu of having. I think the constant finger-pointing and jibes are not productive to the overall discussion, nor is commentary on people's education nor comments about online "stalking" of people's reviews and opinions.
People are entitled to their opinions and negative reviews are NOT an abuse of the site. They are precisely what the site is designed for--good OR bad reviews of venues and the sharing of knowledge about the nightlife and dining scenes in Shanghai that encourages discussion within the community.
If either you or zimbu wish to make further comments on this blog, I ask that you restrict your comments to the topic at hand and not continue this pointless personal jousting.
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thank you trista for putting an end to this endless fingerpointing and insulting. I was drawn to this blog because, even though I am German, I like some nice Mexican food every once in a while. I was hoping to find out where to find any, through this blog, but almost instantly this bickering and insulting started as if we were in kindergarten. This certainly isn't productive and I am hoping to see some more interesting and helpful replies from now on.
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Fair enough - ok, I'll offer up a suggestion as penance for drawing it out.
A good place for a surprisingly good burrito? New York City Deli - located downtown. It's massive, cheap and good.
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Yes, the place on Shanxi is Tequilaz, and I had pretty high hopes for the food when I went. I only got the tacos, and they weren't terrible or anything. They just fell far short of what I'd expect from a place owned by Mexicans. And as I said, the salsa really tasted like hoisin sauce had been added to it. The tequila is a good draw, but I'll be hesitant to try more of their food.
And yes zimbu, I understand you are giving Cal Kitchen a decent review because it's about the closest thing that you've found to a good burrito here in Shanghai. I just personally don't think that's enough. I know it's asking way too much, but I want somebody to open a Mexican place that serves something that tastes like Mexican food (hopefully good Mexican food).
This city has got to be able to do better than Mexico Lindo, which to me tastes like a second rate version of already third rate corporate U.S. Mexican restaurant chains like Acapulco and El Torito.
Also, for the sake of clarifying this discussion, I don't think everybody here's idea of what constitutes Mexican food is the same. So maybe people's reviews should clarify if it's Tex-Mex, Cal-Mex, Mexican (which in and of itself is very different in different regions of that country), or corporate American-Mexican.
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mcmal - good points. regional differences do play a huge factor. for example, 'fish tacos' in Texas were, well something that we'd never heard of but seem prominent in Cali.
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I would have to bow to the greater knowledge of American counterparts on Tex-Mex and Cal Mex. Being from Canada, the varieties of Mexican I have experience with are limited mostly to major chain-style Mexican food or the Tex-Mex variety served at various restaurants, and meals cooked by Mexican friends (which always usually trump everything else). Fish tacos? Really? That's interesting. I'd actually be interested to know what you guys define as some of the differences between Cal-Mex and Tex-Mex.
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Yes, food varies significantly by region. I am from the state of Michoacan (famous for drugs not food!), but we only eat Pinto beans, whereas, in other states (especially in the southern ones), black beans are favored and disliked by Michoacaners! Enchiladas vary as well, Tex Mex and Cal-Mex ones are stuffed with cheese, or meat, and layered with melted cheese (yuck!) ours are mildly "filled" as opposed to "stuffed" with a light salsa made of fresh onions, tomotoes, jalapenos, oreganos and a little vinegar and a sprinkle of mexican cheese. These are traditionally called "Enchiladas Rancheras". It's more about the homemade red sauce that is on type, which is made up of many types of dried chiles and is a little more spicy and bitter than most enchilada sauces. Not sure about the differences between Cal-Tex and Tex-Mex, but I grew up in California (northern) and the Mexican seems a little more fresh and maybe a little more healthier because of the California influence. Call it "Nouveau Mexican".. Tex-Mexi is famous for the Chili, which is derived from the traditional Mexican "pot of beans" and of course, you can never beat a good Tex-Mex BBQ! that's the best of both worlds.. grilled meats with many different types of salsas...hmm.. I am craving that now! , but my main point is that it is very difficult to get the ingredients you need here in China. I attempted to make mole the other night and it was challenging! For example, corn tortillas are impossible to find and I once found "masa" to make my own, but that was 1 year ago and have yet to see it again. The same for Jicama (anyone know where to get that?). There is nothing like a fresh Jicama and Mango salad! Opening a Mexican place would be great, but you'd have to have very good (and key word here, reliable) vendors for all your ingredients otherwise, consistency will be challenging and you'd end up with angry and disatisfied customers!
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Hi everyone, I'm GM of Cal Kitchen. I am excited to see this forum for Mexican food being formed, and I am looking forward to hear everyone's opinions. I don't know if it's proper or welcomed by your blog to talk about any specific store, but I just wanna let everyone know that I am aware of everyone's opinions, and I will improve formulas for our salsa and guacamole very soon. Hope you guys can find a way to expand the forum with more participants, let's work together to push the great Mexican flavors into the local Chinese market, That's the ultimate goal!!
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Hi Steven. It's a race between you and Steven of Togo to see who opens up the first late-night delivery for people who have had one too many bad experience with 'meat on a stick' outside the pub.
Stay open until 4am and you'll clean up.
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I am looking to open Pudong and Hongqiao outlets now to better serve our customers around that area. Good locations are hard to find, but you'll see it coming, I promise. Late night delivery is not something on our agenda, I'll have to consult with our operation units on this. Meanwhile, stay sober, cheers!!
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We will look for your new locales but refuse to stay sober - isn't the late-night hungry crowd the preferred demographic of burrito stand owners?
Can I be so bold to ask why it's not on the list? Word has it that McDonalds is making a killing by offering 24-hour delivery and god knows we'd pay more to have something else.
Please? We need more late-night choices. Taco Bell's marketing of 'The 4th Meal' was awarded many an accolade for this very reason!
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Extending business hours into late night is something that has to be carefully evaluated. We may adjust store hours for future outlets that are situated in particular demographics, will take ur advice into consideration, meanwhile, stay out of trouble while u r not sober, cheers : )
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Well, there's always Taco Popo ... if you dare take on Tongren Lu at 4am ;)
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taco bell is disgusting!!!!!! But i would sure love to try the places here in shanghai that try to act mexican(didnt think much of zapatas and tooooo expensive)....damn i miss mexico.
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Well arics, fish tacos, also known as Ensenada style tacos, do actually come from Mexico, but from that part of Mexico just to the south: Baja California. They are battered deep fried white fish in a corn tortilla, usually with shredded cabage, sour cream sauce, and some salsa. They're extremely popular in the San Diego area and they're pretty tasty (and I'm not talking about that abomination of a chain, Wahoos) But it's not something I'd ever expect to see in Shanghai.
All I want here is some simple things: 1)enchiladas, good ones in either the Mexican or American styles, but without too much cheese (as evecrawford points out about them in the U.S.) Simple rancheras and verdes would be plenty. 2) A good burrito, even if it's a San Francisco "Mission" style which has rice and beans and cheese and meat and sour cream and all that stuff they put in it , or better yet a simple honest bean and cheese burrito 3) and most importantly I want a damn good taco. Is this so much to ask for, good marinated grilled carne asada and al pastor, fresh corn tacos, rich smokey hot salsa, onions and cilantro, all wrapped up into a delicious package? Oh yeah, I also want to be able to get it at 3 in the morning if I so desire.
Yeah, I could go for fourth meal too. If there were a halfway decent burrito close to me in the wee hours of the morning I'd be there. And if Cal Kitchen starts making some good honest guacamole and salsa I'd be willing to give the place another try.
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Here's my review for Peter's Tex Mex. Cross posted it here for reference:
El Review: Peter's Tex Mex
Los First Impressiones: I arrived at the well-known Hong Mei alley location (across the street from over-priced Pasta Fresca), home of Mexico Lindo, Royal Thai, and Indian Kitchen (aka, bad Mexican, bad Thai, and bad Indian food). Expecting to find some sort of little hole in the wall place, I was surprised by the size of the Peter's Tex Mex location. This place is big!
La Decorata: Well, it's not really Texan. And it's not Mexican either. And it's not exactly Gramma's Rose Garden Inn Bed & Breakfast. It is a cross between all three. More than a little confusing, to say the least...
That said, it's very nicely done. Good quality materials throughout, nice looking unique paint scheme, beautiful solid wood tables and chairs, high quality woven table covers...no skimping at all on the build-out of this place. Even the dish settings are very nice and quirky looking. Each piece on our table was slightly different from the others, giving it a very nice home-style feeling. The "fruit jar" drinking glasses were a little cliche, but nice to see they tried.
El Menuto: The menu consists of Mexican food and every other food on earth. One of those typical "reach too far" type of places (Steak and Eggs, are you listening?). I really wish they had just focused on Mexican and offered more choices of that type, rather than adding steak, pasta dishes, monkey brain, and everything else.
La Foodilla: Making the obvious choice to order Mexican food, the "Zimbu, party of 2" table ordered chips/salsa, "Big Texan chicken burrito", and tacos (beef and chicken). Also a side of “guac” for the ultimate test of authenticity.
Overall, the food is about the same quality as you would make at home if you had all of the exact ingredients needed. Which is to say, it tastes ok, but lacks some level of professional presentation. Still, the taste is pretty close, so I was quite happy with the food in general.
Salsa was a nice surprise; taste was great, and although it was not spicy enough, at least it had more spice that the Cal Kitchen "chunky mineral water" version. One complaint is that the salsa dish was really small. But they gave us a free refill when we asked for one. Gracias!
The buritos were served dry (just tortillas and a very good tasting spicy chicken filling) with refried beans, rice, lettuce on the side, and topped with sour cream). Tacos were similar but had fried corn tortilla shells; which were slightly limp feeling as if they were not completely fresh or had absorbed some steam in the kitchen.
Guacamole was chunky and clearly made from real avocado (as opposed to the greenish chunky mayo that passes for guacomole at some other places in Shanghai). But it did not have enough salt or onion, so it was a little bland. Still, not bad for Shanghai. So far, this is the best guacamole I have eaten in the city. Which is not saying much, but still...
El Servicio: Friendly and cheerful. Strange that they seemed to hire mainly Shanghainese, which is not very common for this type of restaurant in Shanghai (most usually hire staff from outside the area who will work for less money). When we arrived, the place was nearly empty, but they allowed us to freely select our own table, even on the second floor. I hate when restaurants play the "second floor is closed for cleaning" game in order to squeeze the sucker customers all together in one convenient location. Papa's John's does this all the time and it really annoys me.
Los Ordering Processito: The waitress was not quite up to speed on the typical ordering style and options for Mexican food. End result, she required a few quick runs to the kitchen to check this and that. "Is it breast meat chicken?"...hold on..."Can I have black beans instead of refried sludge?"...uhh, let me check. Still, in the end, we got what we wanted (well, not black beans, but sorta dryish pinto beans...anything is better than lardy refried beans!), and she was very friendly about it.
La Dinero Damagita: Something less that 200RMB for two people.
El Summarinosa: It is certainly not the slightly foo foo Euro-Mex type of food that you will find at Mexico Lindo. Instead, it is more like a dressed up Taco Bell on plates (not to be confused with Taco Bell Grande which was very badly localized in terms of ingredients). So if you go with the right mindset, you will definitely be satisfied. If you are looking for a 5-star hotel presentation, or big showy "shrimp ceviche mole volcano mountain" dishes, then you will not like it.
By the time we finished our meal, the downstairs eating area was packed full. A good sign that Peter's may have some staying power. That's good news since...
A new Mexican food king has been crowned for Shanghai: Peter's Tex Mex! Not the best quality, for sure, but the best that we currently have to choose from. I originally gave it 3.5 Zimbu bananas out of 5, but since my accounting department says I need to round up, in the end, Peter's earns 4 Zimbu bananas out of 5!
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Well hello, I am mexican! I've been in Shanghai for over a year and yes, there is not one good mexican restaurant in Shanghai, I think the best I tried was Zapata's, but I was only there once and it was a long time ago, I had the 'carnitas' and I was surprised that they tasted so damn good. After that I've tried Taco Popo, the guacamole was not bad but well... the rest was terrible, and Mexico Lindo, which wasn't good either, with their garlic quesadillas. I'll try that Peter's Tex Mex soon I hope, then report back here.
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Keep in mind though that Peter's is basically Taco Bell fast food dressed up on a plate....So don't get your expectations too high.
Such is the pitiful "lacking good Mexican food" existence that we live here in Shanghai.
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I have a mexican restaurant in shanghai... near fudan university... have u heard about it?? well if not.. you will be hearing very soon will be open downtown and able to do delivery in gubei, jingan, xujiahui, hengshan and more... El Mexicano... feel free to contactme for more info... by the way.. our cook is one of those ladies that really knows how to cook...
El Mexicano
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Also, for those who aren't aware, ZOCO is renovating and turning over a new leaf. They'll soon be a Mexican restaurant helmed by chef Brad Turley. I think that will have a lot of potential, Brad is a good chef.
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hello everyone i just read a little the comments here about mexican food i'm from Mexico, the only thing i want to post here, is that in shanghai there is no real mexican food, the day the restaurants can make tortillas by hand, we can start making comments, so for now, dont waste time on this topic thanks Rafael
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rafael... I have a good news for you... I'm bringing a small machine to make corn tortillas with me.. I will be back in shanghai on monday I came to have a meeting with the people from the pollo loco ... we are the only mexican restaurant with mexican cheff...
we are for real.. and we are triying to improve... try los tacos de lengua o de barbacoa, enchiladas.. flan.. horchata o agua de jamaica.. etc ect... its not easy to make mexican food... and by the way... gorditas are cooming...
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great Pedro, i'm so sad, will go to mexico on monday but any please send me your restaurant address i will recomend to my friends thanks
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Listen up everyone! our prayers have finally been answered! I just returned from a new Mexican restaurant called Maya located at 586 Julu Lu. AMAZING!! Incredibly authentic. Tamales, Sopes, albondiga soup, chorizo quesadillas--so much to choose from, it was hard to decide! The Sopes were by far our favorite with my party of 6. The decor, ambiance and music were just right. Service was one of the best I've had in Shanghai (no joke!) Great margaritas and the desserts were spectacular (Chocolate volcano and their Churros). Their Churros were served with a 3 dips (whipped cream, chocolate and strawberry sauce) (not typical Mexican, but aahhh, what a nice touch to a traditional dish that made it even better. You have to hurry up and get there. It's hidden down the driveway next in an apartment complex, but their sign is easy to find! I'll definitely be a there every week!
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evecrawford, yes I agree. Their tacos were spectacular too. And dangerous, given that once you have one you want to have about 5 more. I also thought the scallop ceviche was great as well as the potato skins. Yes, potato skins are a typical bar food / appetizer item but trust me, these one were absolutely delicious. Brad's done a great job with this place, it's delicious.
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zimbu - you're insane. I say that after a) reading this and b) scanning your other negative reviews.
take it from a boy who grew up on Tex-Mex and a dear friend of mine from Mexico, this isn't bad. good nachos, salsa/chips are actually very nice and close to authentic, mole, while hard to make, is nice and oh-my-god the chipotle prawns are heaven.
per the staff - you won't meet a nicer bunch of people, Steven? Eric? Cindy? no way are they anything but wonderful.
the chef has spent time both in Texas and Mexico, fyi.
I'm willing to bet you live in Gubei - your reviews have all the makings of a 'nothing tastes like home' life.